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 EAA Witness Elite Club
 Really good Elite review from another forum
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tz75man
Forum Admin


USA
408 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2010 :  2:58:30 PM  Show Profile Send tz75man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's the link: You must be logged in to see this link.

I live by the rule that it is better to ask forgiveness than permission when buying my toys!

rjoy
Starting Member



USA
20 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2010 :  10:52:49 PM  Show Profile Send rjoy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ck1 summarizes the witness elite perfectly, in my opinion and in my experience with mine. This pistol has to be one of the best kept firearms secrets out there.

My experience with the elite started about two years ago while reading several forums looking for a 9 mm pistol to use for IDPA. A few of the forums mentioned the witness, which I had heard little to nothing about, but I certainly liked it's looks. Some were saying how good it does for IDPA, so I kept a subconscious lookout for one in my ventures to the gun stores. I happened to wander into the Cabela's here in Phoenix and was looking through the case, and, sure enough, there was one there. I asked to see it and when I held it, I was basically hooked. I thought it was a new pistol but the clerk proceeds to tell me it is used. You would never know it by it's condition. It was pristine. Needless to say, it left the store with me that day and I have been so happy ever since. This pistol has become, without a doubt, my favorite pistol, even more so than my beloved 1911's. This heavy gun is perfect for IDPA ESP, super nice trigger, low recoil and it functions perfectly. After the "what gun are you shooting?" question, the guys at the range proceed to tell me what a nice gun it is. And as CK1 also says, it is very accurate. If any of you are on the fence about getting one of these, don't be. You won't be disappointed.
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Rod Slinger
Moderator



USA
1332 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2010 :  01:16:59 AM  Show Profile Send Rod Slinger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
rjoy....A very big welcome to our forum. What a great post. R S
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Southern Forester
Moderator



USA
190 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2010 :  06:43:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit Southern Forester's Homepage Send Southern Forester a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I personally like the 1911, but the Match is a better pistol in my opinion, if nothing else because it is less complicated with a very comfortable grip and far lower price than comparable quality in 1911's,
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R.L.Klaus
Starting Member



USA
1 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2010 :  9:51:04 PM  Show Profile Send R.L.Klaus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Had one of those "This gun's coming home with me" moments the first time I picked up a 10MM Witness Match. Some cash and a five minute phone call later the Match was mine.
It did take a couple hundred rounds until it was happy with some hollow points, but has always been an accurate shooter.
Runs from a low of 1080 FPS to a little over 1500 FPS on most ammo. Still going to try the Mag Safe frangible ammo that promises much higher speeds (2400 FPS).
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Yosemite Sam
New Member



USA
62 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2010 :  12:07:13 PM  Show Profile Send Yosemite Sam a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I ordered my Match about 1 day after first reading about them. Several months ago I ordered a Sig P220 Elite and after 6 weeks of waiting, Sig never saw fit to build the gun, or give me an estimate of when I might expect it. I gave up, but I still wanted a quality target 9mm. I read about the Match, and a local shop had one in stock; Not a 9mm, but at least I got to hold one and inspect it before I bought. Plus, I already knew about the workings of the gun from owning other CZ clones in the past and present. The single action trigger and the price was what sealed the deal for me.

And not to add controversy to this forum, but when I read:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Forester

... if nothing else because it is less complicated ...


I guess I don't see that. I've owned 1911s longer than CZ clones and am very familiar with the workings. What is it, something like 37 parts to a standard 1911? I've detail stripped every 1911 I've owned to the frame for one reason or another, including series 70 and 80 style guns. Fitted triggers, bushings, MS housings, etc.

OTOH, I have yet to take a Witness or other CZ clone apart. The mechanism looks to be much more complicated, with a lot more parts. Perhaps I'm wrong, and will learn someday (soon), as I intend on seeing if I can convert my Armalite AR-24 into a single action gun like my Witness Match.

Or are you simply referring to field strip procedures? That one I'll definitely give you: The CZ style gun is much easier to take apart for cleaning, etc, with no tools (bushing wrench) required, no barrel link to fool with, and a slide stop that doesn't try to gouge the frame if you aren't really careful. The only thing that would make it better (IMO) would be the inclusion of a Sig/Beretta style takedown lever, rather than having to push out the slide stop. The one in my Match is so tight I have to press it against the bench to get it out.

-- Sam
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Southern Forester
Moderator



USA
190 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2010 :  05:58:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Southern Forester's Homepage Send Southern Forester a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've owned 1911's, including a sweet Sistema Colt, and the trigger is simpler to be sure. But the Tanfoglio design is not especially complicated. I've detail-stripped them several times and it is always easy.

I suppose I was considering the entire package. The barrel lock-up, bushing-with-plunger, extractor, and main spring-housing are all more complicated. Perhaps less-refined is more accurate. In this instance, I refer to the Tanfoglio over the CZ as the Tanfoglio is more streamlined than its Czech counterpart.

The 1911 (and I do not bash the 1911) is never-the-less a design that is fully 100 years old, and while it is just as potent and effective today as it did when first designed, it reflects many design features that remain early in progression of auto-loaders. Browning was a visionary in autoloader design, and his concepts, when compared with other autoloaders of the time, are the ones that won out. Contemporary designs had features that have largely fallen by the way-side. The Austrian 1911 and German C96 used internal box-magazines that required chargers. The C96 had an odd magazine location (and odd grip design). The Austrian 1911 and Savage pistols had rotating barrel lock-up which while still used from time-to-time today (even by Colt), modern incarnations of the design (including by SIG/Mauser as well as Colt) don't last long. The Borschardt toggle-lock design was used some, but nothing new beyond WWII used it (even though the P06 Luger is a refined and attractive-looking pistol). Every major consideration employed by the 1911, the magazine design and location, the tilting lock, the slide configuration, even the grip angle and the ease of manufacture of the 1911 was superior, largely established what a modern autoloader became.

Yet, it reflects design features that are really quite antiquated in that there are equally effective and less complicated ways to achieve the same result. The swinging barrel link is a prime example. Even Browning discarded that idea when he started (and Saive finished) the Hi Power (interestingly enough, Browning discarded the hammer and went Glock-style with an enclosed striker in his original Hi Power design). The bushing/plunger retainment at the front of the slide is another. As a collector of WWI and WWII martial arms, it is very logical to me as a method of the times, but there are just plane simpler and equally effective means out there. No new design even came close to it post WWII except for 1911 copies and Colt's All American failure (which copied the Walther model 4 in a few elements that Walther ended up discarding). The removable magazine housing is also needlessly complicated (but yeah, it does allow the user to change the grip contours - something not considered by JMB when he designed it). The internal extractor is another thing.

As to Tanfoglio vs 1911, I referred to the Match with its single-action trigger. In that guise, the trigger is simpler than the double-action trigger system in its brothers. While not as simple as the 1911's trigger, it does, in my opinion, lead to an overall design that is simpler and more stream-lined for much less money when equal quality is considered. That is not to bash any 1911, but the Match is just plane better at the price point.

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Yosemite Sam
New Member



USA
62 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2010 :  5:20:10 PM  Show Profile Send Yosemite Sam a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Forester

... That is not to bash any 1911, but the Match is just plane better at the price point.


You got that right! I may even have to get myself a .45 ACP Match to, um, "match" my 9mm. For $550 or so, you can't touch a 1911 that will be anywhere near as nice.

Thanks for the explanation of the other bit, too.

-- Sam
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